Gear Drop Live: Abel Vaya Fly Reel

Producer: MIDCURRENT

We talk with Abel VP Jeff Patterson about the brand’s popular new fly reel, the Abel Vaya.

The Vaya comes with a huge variety of cosmetic customization options and features a graphite/stainless drag stack, double pawl click, and large arbor.

Learn more about the Abel Vaya series fly reel

Excerpts from Our Live Conversation

Marshall Cutchin

Hi everybody, welcome to MidCurrent gear drop live where we talk to where we talk to fly fishing product designers about their latest gear live on the air. I am Marshall Cutchin, publisher of MidCurrent.

Scott Nielsen

Hey everyone, I am Scott Nielsen, MidCurrent’s chief inspiration office and we are really excited to bring you insider access to some of the latest in fly fishing gear and equipment.

Marshall

Today we are joined by Jeff Patterson from Abel Automatics which is based in Montrose, Colorado.

Scott

Jeff is the executive vice president of Abel Reels and is the director of sales for both Abel and Ross and today we will be talking to Jeff about the Vaya fly reel which was just released last fall and has a lot of excitement around it.

Jeff, we are gonna dive right in here, so you have been with Abel for about 30 years now.

Jeff Patterson

I guess 1992 is when I first started working here.

Scott

Did you ever think you would be a part of a brand for that long?

Jeff

Uhhh… Boy, when I came to fly fishing I was sure hoping so and it’s worked out. I had no idea where it would go and I did not envision ending up in Montrose, Colorado back then, from southern California, but I’m sure glad it’s worked out that way.

Scott

So Jeff, what was the intention behind launching the Vaya?

Jeff 

Well, the Vaya was more of a modern design for Abel compared to years past. We wanted to have a really easy to adjust disk drag type of system. Pprior to that we came out with a new TR model which was a click-drag system, but we felt it was kinda time to come up with something a little bit different than maybe the cork drag that Abel has always been known for. We came out with a really cool line of sealed drag freshwater and saltwater reels, but this one was a little bit different. We actually borrowed some of the things that we’ve learned from the Ross brand as well and we didn’t exactly set out to make a less-expensive model off the bat but that was kind of where we were hoping our own internal cost would allow us to get to. So instead of having like a $700 sealed drag reel we were able to come in with a $500 adjustable drag reel with the Vaya.

Scott

What particular uses would somebody use a Vaya for?

Jeff

Well, we only made the Vaya in three sizes: we did a 4/5, a 5/6, and a 7/8. They are designed to be used wherever you want them to be used at in that range. Its a great tout reel it, it is a great light saltwater reel. You kinda alluded to the fact that it won some awards.  It actually got the Best New Saltwater Reel at the IFTD show last fall when we introduced it. That was obviously for the 7/8 size. So it is a great light saltwater reel but it’s not designed to be catching 100-pound tarpon. It’s more of your bonefish or redfish type of setup. But it’s got the drag strength to hold up not only to any bonefish but any trout or freshwater species that you’re going to see.

Marshall

Jeff, as long as you are talking about saltwater, how does that carbon steel disc combination work in saltwater? It’s not a true sealed drag, right?

Jeff

It’s designed to be sealed but it isn’t that… we don’t market it as a fully sealed drag like our sealed drag freshwater SDF series fly reels. Everything is enclosed. But for us to market it as 100% sealed drag reels, it’s just not the case. But you don’t really need that for what this is designed for.

Marshall

Gotcha, but you don’t need to take any particular special care of it in saltwater other than rinsing it off?

Jeff

No, obviously the reel is anodized. But just like with any reel you want to rinse it off when you are done. After doing this for as long as I have I realized most people don’t rinse off the reels when they are done—that’s just the way it goes and it’s fine, the reels are designed for that.

Scott

How do pop the reel apart? Do you have to unscrew anything?

Jeff

Nope, we made it really simple. It’s an O-Ring type of release. We actually borrowed this from the Ross line with our LTX design. When you put it back together, we do recommend you just push and turn it and let those metal balls find their way between the teeth right here so you aren’t just trying to smash these balls up against the clicker. And that’s it, goes back just as easy.

Scott

In terms of  what’s on the market right now, what would you say the Vaya compares to?

Jeff

So you know, we don’t compare ourselves to other manufactures—that isn’t the case at all, but it is in terms of our own lineup. You’ve got the TR that’s got a click-drag that sells for $395, you’ve got the Vaya that sells for $495, and you’ve got the Super Series, the cork drag reels that fall in that $500-600 range, and the SDF in the $550-$650 range. So that is where it kinda falls in our own line up. This our least-expensive adjustable drag reel.

Scott

What type of customer that is buying the Vaya? What are they using it for?

Jeff

Well it’s is by far our best selling model right now. W had pretty optimistic projections going into this marketing plan. And right now we are right about 150% of our plan so I guess you could say it is going well in terms of volume. In terms of who it’s for, it is for everybody really, it is for whoever wants to go out in freshwater fish in the 4/5 and 5/6 range. Like saltwater it’s not marketed to a particular demographic or price point or or “territory,” its a really general use type of rig. And yeah I mean you could say it’s going to be popular here in the Rockies and it is but there’s a lot of trout fishing around the nation and it is selling pretty well in every region. Its the colors that start setting a little bit of different course on who’s buying what.

Scott

I think the cool thing about the Vaya is the customization in terms of the graphics. This one I’m holding, for example.

Jeff

That is our “Northern Lights” pattern.

Now if you hold it close you can actually see it captures a little of the colors of the Northern Lights. You’ve got the stars in there that’s all done by hand, just like all of our fish graphic anodized models. That’s under our fade series of reels that came out a little while ago and the first few fades were cool, but just like all of these fish graphics we have gotten better at it and they are getting more and more compelling as we go. That’s a pretty intricate pattern you have right there. It’s not so much done with a paintbrush it is actually kind of blended and dyed to get those different colors and you can’t just put on one at a time. It’s a pretty cool process.

Scott

You can obviously customize the full reel, the drag knob, the handle. How many combinations are there?

Jeff

[laughing] If you take all of the different drag knobs and reels and frames it’s hundreds and hundreds. If you go to our website—we call it your “build your own reel page”—you can actually construct a reel on our site. You can put a different frame on there with a different colored drag knob see how it looks and man I have seen some really awesome reels that we didn’t even think of get built and sold. And I’ve seen some really bad ones too [laughing]. You know it’s all subjective. It’s really cool that we have that unique ability to do that. And we don’t stock all of this. Most of these are going to take some lead time to do because for us to actually manufacture and then stock all of these different colors with the different colored drag knobs or handles would be impossible. So you know we are kind of unique that the customization that we offer but, unless it’s a native brown trout in a 5-weight we are probably not going to have it in stock. You are just gonna need to wait for it. It depends, but right now it’s about two weeks for a solid color and it’s about six for one these fade or artistically anodized fish graphic patterns.

Scott

I noticed one of the other kinda cool features is that engraving on the inside. Do all the three different sizes have that?

Jeff

Yes. We kind of we started doing that with the TR model, and on the TR we had the same pattern on all three sizes. With the Vaya we decided to change it up a little. You have a 7/8 in your hand and you will see the streamers that are used in the 7/8. I’ll grab the smaller one here. So this is the 4/5, and it’s got a hopper and a dropper. At least out here in Colorado hopper dropper is a pretty popular set up depending on the season. Then on the 5/6, we kinda go in between.  So you know we tried to make it appropriate for whatever species you were gonna generally be chasing on that size.

Marshall

Jeff sorry to interrupt but we have a question from the audience. Guy Frantz wanted to know if most of your sales are on the 7/8.

Jeff

You know the best seller right now is the 5/6. Just because that is your general-purpose set up for all-around. But the 7/8 is a very good seller, with the 4/5 right behind it.

Scott

A question again on the customization again Jeff. How does it start? Is there like a base model you start off of and you can kinda tier up from there or how does that work?

Jeff

So the reel I am holding here is our black base model. We make everything in black and then from there we make solid colors. If you jump on our site you will see we do dozens of solid colors and those sell for 100$ more than the standard black, simply because we don’t do the volume and we have to mix smaller batches to make those happen. Then you can mix up a solid color drag knob with a fish graphic drag knob.

They are actually $200 for all of the fades regardless of what the fade is. We don’t have different variances of what a fade. A Northern Lights doesn’t cost more than a Baja fade. We make it pretty simple, it pretty much just comes down to time. The longer something takes us to create, the more it costs because time is money on this type of stuff.

Marshall

So are those designs hand-drawn or are they, how do you get those designs actually applied to the reel?

Jeff

Great question. So this is our Brook Trout reel right there, our original Brook Trout. If you ever see one these in a shop put your fingernail on them run it across there we actually lightly laser it on these reels so we can get a bit of a template on there. It’s certainly not a secret. What it really does is that it not only gives our artists a bit of a template to work with, it also gives our customers something that they are expecting. They see it on a website and if it’s completely done freehand the next time they see it they may think “those squiggles are nothing like what I saw and expected.” You know you’ve got to get people what they are looking for. There will only be some variations on some of the colors and the paint since they are all done by hand. But at least we are gonna get pretty darn close to what you expect and what you receive

Scott

Each one is in essence a custom reel.

Jeff

Without question. Our team is just amazing, and it is outstanding to see the patience that they have to hand paint something like a Bonefish pattern. That’s our best-selling pattern we sell in the artistic set up for the 6/7 weight obviously because it is an appropriate pattern for what you are fishing. There is a reason that nobody else does this, and it’s because it is a giant pain in the butt. It takes a lot of time. And we’ve got 20-year artists on our team that have been doing it that long and it’s hard to get good at it. It takes a lot of patience. It takes 8 hours to paint a reel. This was someone’s entire day to paint that reel so, yeah it’s gonna cost a little bit more than the standard black reel, and it should. At these last trade shows we brought one of our artists from our anodizing facility, Marie, and she was painting reels at the show in front of people and people are like “I had no idea.”  You have to actually see it sometimes to believe and really have it sink in . Yeah, these are done by hand.

Marshall

Hey, Kyle Napelbaum wants to know what was the biggest challenge when designing the Vaya?

Jeff

Great question, you know. It was trying to make something a little bit different we made before, but with more modern aesthetics compared to the round hole stuff or the old kidney bean type of things, and our design team just continues to amaze us. It’s one of the greatest things that happened to the Abel brand, moving out here to Colorado and actually working with some of the established Ross team coming up with not just great aesthetics but actual functionality when it comes to the product itself.

With the Vaya what we wanted to accomplish was a little bit different than what we had done with our super series or our SDF or SDS where you can buy a ported frame or you could buy a solid frame version of that particular reel. With the Vaya there’s only one choice with what we have when it comes to the patterned and this is kind of the what we call like the 3 core, you can see through it. What it does is still leaves a pallet if you are ordering a fish graphic you can actually see the designs on it, you will be able to know if it is a brook trout, but it still makes it lightweight enough to where you could you know still have this bottom cool looking aesthetic but not weigh down the reel with a completely solid frame either. The majority of the weight stays up on the top where it’s gonna be on the rod seat and it balances out really well. The challenges were making something cool and different outside the box for us we wanted to maybe make something attractive to a little bit newer demographic than you know some of our longtime customers. It’s like it’s something new and fresh and unique and I think we accomplished it pretty well when you take this thing apart you look at the spool, that’s nothing that an Abel used to be. You could never see through them like that, pretty simple designs really.

Scott

Very cool so Jeff um if somebody wanted something like totally custom do you guys ever get into that or is it kind of whatever’s on the site builder is that what you get to choose from?

Jeff

Yeah our idea with the customization features that we off is that you can pick the 50 odd plus different graphics that we have and change them around with a different drag knob if somebody comes to us and says hey I want to get this reel but I want to change this color can you make it go, I like the fade starts up here and changes to a different color there can I go the opposite, pretty much the answer is no, but there’s. We have mad one-off reels in the past but uh you know to be honest we don’t have time right now. We are constantly chasing a backorder list especially in the artistic side of things because you can’t rush this stuff you cant say okay we need to get double the reels today because we have this many on backorder. Art takes time and you cant push it. I mean we’ll say that it’s like you know your about 6 weeks out from getting it and usually the answer is, don’t rush it just do it the way I want and I will wait. And uh you know if we were maybe not busy and we had idle time we could probably maybe play around a little bit with the one-off scenario, but honestly we don’t have time to do it so…

Scott

Sure

Jeff

We try to make enough compelling choices uh and occasional uh licensed reel or two with some unique graphics I can tell you within the next week or two, you will probably going to see another half a dozen graphic choices added to our website builder. I won’t give away too many secrets but there are some pretty cool things we have going on in the artistic side of things. You know you got to keep it fresh got to keep it fun with new stuff. We’ve done pretty well with some of our new like flag type pattern designs uh we’ve got a few of those kind of cooked in uh like I said I don’t want to give out all of the surprises, but keep your eyes peeled on the website. Youll see some stuff coming up pretty soon.

Scott

Absolutely, no we are excited about uh what’s coming down the road. That’s awesome I mean again the stuff that’s available right now in terms of customization is incredible so I’m sure it’s only gonna get even better.

Marshall 

Yeah Actually, related to that Clark Ross says “Greetings from western North Carolina… I have been looking at the Abel line and interested in a reel for a size ¾ and with the NC Native “Speck” Trout do you offer that?” or are you thinking about offering something east coast oriented?

Jeff

Oh gosh, well let’s see like a speckled trout not currently uh if it ….

Marshall

Maybe he is talking about a like native brook trout…

Jeff

So I showed you a brook trout before, it’s actually a great question so this has been our brook trout for years. It is always hard to try and get it to the camera I got to go opposite

Marshall

Backward

Jeff

It’s like flying an airplane

Marshall

Right

Jeff

The native trout actually has different colors than the brook trout. I know that they are subtle but they are definitely different and it is just kind of some of the advancements that we have made in our anodizing department. So to us, this looks a little bit more like a brook trout than maybe the previous pattern did. But yeah we do we have our newer fish graphics are a native brook a native brown and a native cutthroat. If I was getting a new ¾ weight size I am a huge fan of the new TR reels. We do a ⅔ and a ⅘ so it’s kinda what you think is best in there. It would all depend on the rod length as well, if it was a 7 foot I would be looking at the ⅔

Marshall 

So talk a little bit about that jeff, when you think about how you are going to design a reel for, to be a certain weight, I’m sure you have upper and lower limits that you work with in to achieve a certain weight. What does that look like? Are you saying rod length are you going by rod weight?

Jeff

Ya I mean all of the above there are so many variables out there when  it comes to rods and uh you know you can always ask us for our opinion and we will tell you but generally speaking when we call something a ⅘ we are basing that on a 9-foot length rod. As you get with a shorter length rod, yeah you probably might want to go down a size to balance it. We know bamboo rods are heavier, so in some cases, you might want to stick back to what that 9-foot length would be. As you get to switch and spay rods, you obviously want to size up to balance that out as well. Yeah I mean that’s the fun fart of fly fishing it is very techy, it’s uhh not extremely difficult to learn and get that information, but there is not a one size fits all scenario which helps us as reel manufacturers.

Marshall

Right here are seven weights and then there are seven weights right?

Jeff

Very different then you have got click drags or you got disk drags or seal drags. We try to make something that finds its’ way to you is what you are looking for, but man it is impossible to hit every aspect of every market, or you would have a million skews.

Marshall

But they can call you directly??

Jeff

Oh sure, sure absolutely I mean we have 5 full-time salespeople here in the factory for able and ross reels and uh if you ask anyone our level of customer service is as good as it gets and we take a lot of pride in that. We have a lot of long time employees here, not just on the sales team, but the machine shop floor and the design team and the designers and uh I mean there are about 40 people that work here at this factory and you’ve got a lot of 20-year employees this is uh very passionate brand and we take a lot of pride in the fact that we not only make it here completely in the united states we design it here ourselves we manufacture it. It’s done from almost like you start with a goal and then you build backward towards it and uh it’s pretty fun to see plus the pride that goes into it and the knowledge and the teamwork it;’s uh we have a lot of what we call our comprehensive design review where we have a dozen people in a room as a new reel is being created or a new product, not just a reel and you have somebody from the machine shop you have got somebody from design you have someone from the quality you have someone from sales. Everyone is kind of coming together to get to a goal that we are trying to reach and there is some time where one department might want something and the other department is like, we cant make that like that’s not even possible to cut, but our design and our engineering team work so closely with the machine shop they have pretty much learned each other’s language and they have a background in both. When something is being made it’s not like it can’t actually be cut on a machine its its a pretty cool relationship that we all have and you know the sales team is involved with all of that as well as to like what will the market accept, or what price point do we need to hit this time, or what does it even look like. It’s teamwork from top to bottom here.

Marshall

Before you ask another question sorry sorry for keep interrupting you, Clark Ross who asked the question earlier about the ¾ spec trout, he lost his connection for a second again, he was wondering if you could hold up the brook trout reel again.

Jeff

We call this the classic trout if the light is not bleeding that out. This one is called the Native brook trout. You almost have to hop on the website to see the differences, but you can see we can see this one is darker at the bottom.

Scott

I think that showcases some of the customizations too because on the drag knob on the on that I think is on your left has the continued pattern on there where the one on the right has the black so that would be kind of another customization.

Jeff

It would be another customization, more time for us to create and more money for our customers to have to drop to get it but we make that as an option. I would say probably about half of our reels when ordered include a matching drag knob. You know to some people it is worth it and to some people it is not, and that is why we give you the option. But look at the bonefish, look at the detail that goes into that thing, its incredible. You know I might as well get the drag knob because you know then they’ll actually take it for a photo, they will take the time to line up the drag knob for the photo of course. Which makes a bigger difference on some of the… our Johny Cash edition reel, you don’t want to screw up the neck of the guitar and have it all sideways.

Scott

Oh nice nice. So jeff lets drill into some of the technical details about the reel. Can you tell us some of the materials and the manufacturing process uh that goes into making a Vaya

Jeff

No I cant its proprietary [laughing], sure so uh you know its a design that we’ve come up with that we really like for numerous of our products and it’s actually a combination, I know they are hard to see of carbon floral polymer and stainless steel discs. So we alternate these they work well against each other as you are screwing down that drag you are basically getting pressure so you are getting 4 of them in they Vaya, no 5 total of them including this one. So this is how it would be stacked up I know that it is difficult to see you, but as you’re cranking down the drag knob and adjusting it you are actually pulling these together and there is the tooth so you put this inside of here. That is the shaft that goes in the middle of it all. So and then you have got the other two pieces that it fits into. Here, so I know it is hard to see but, that is what you are looking at when it is assembled.

Scott

Gotcha, so that is all within that component there.

Jeff

Yep, that is all within that component there.

Scott

So is that all sealed on that end?

Jeff

Kinda

Scott

Okay

Jeff

I know that sounds weak, but once again I don’t like to call it a completely sealed drag, but you can dunk this thing in the water all day long and it doesn’t lose any drag strength. You won’t get any sand and debris in it, and you know you find that you are getting a skipping drag or a grinding drag uh as I said this is very similar to the Ross LTX even the Gunnison that we have had on the market for years and years that we know works well. We have had zero complaints about, and at the same time we make it all in the same factory so why not share a few of the same components I mean it works well. We also have to be a little bit conscious here of the amount of production that we have to do and if you start having individual parts for every reel across the board it becomes impossible to manage from a production standpoint and then nobody gets their reels. I think everybody will tell you that let’s say if they work or run a fly shop or if they are an authorized dealer for Abel or Ross we are pretty awesome for delivery, guys can count on us. We are here we schedule out orders oftentimes in the fall for all of the next year uh with these scheduled dates and I think we are pretty rare in that we hit all of these dates at a hundred percent level all the time and we have for the last four or five years. For some people that are maybe are familiar with old school Abel myself included, that was not always the case we were not always delivering everything as scheduled on time you know and uh that’s an important part this is still a business and our shops count on us to get them the product that they need for a certain time of the year so that’s a big part of it I mean once again hats off to our production team our anodizers. Everyone here works their butt off to make sure we get you not only the best product but we get it to you on time when you want it and when you are expecting it because if you have a great product and you can’t deliver it, it is not that great of a product.

Scott

Absolutely Jeff, just to go back to the kind of the process and the materials involved what is the actual frame made of, is it aluminum??

Jeff

Yes, so it is made of 6061-T6 aluminum. I don’t think I am giving away too much proprietary stuff there, it is bar stock aluminum it is not uh you know a less expensive extruded type of aluminum, it is a cold-rolled feature that polishes up really nice it is part of the game with Abel we don’t cut corners on any material or craftsmanship. We make it the best it can be and the price is what it is basically.

Scott

Absolutely, so you buy a beautiful reel like this um durability I think might be some people’s concern. Obviously if you fall face-first into some rocks you are gonna scratch anything, but how do these thing hold up over time.

Jeff

Thats kinda funny you say that, durability we laughed in some ways huts us because until we started coming out with all of these new models the durability is so great that nobody needed to buy anything again you know if they are Able big game 3n. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve had people come up to me at different trade shows and say I have had this reel for 25 and it is still my go-to my best reel in the world. Well, you haven’t bought anything from us in 25 years. I don’t want to say why we also came out with new reels and models, but no one had a Vaya 2 years ago, it is still part of a business, but I guess that is kinda the silly answer to your question. Longevity is what we are known for. These things go through generation and generation. I’ve been here long enough to see it go to multi-generations of people and its fun to work for a company that you know the product is going to perform and you don’t have to worry about people coming up to me at the show next year and hear that the product sucks. It is a good vibe around our trade show booths and on the phone and in the factory, it’s you know we sell something that we know is gonna do the job out in the field and sometimes on flyfishing trips where we are off in 3rd world locations where you can not have anything go wrong because there is nowhere to get it serviced and we are very confident sending out reels in the field for that kind of stuff too.

Scott

Absolutely, so one of the things you know right now you hear a lot of people talking about the weight of the reel um you know they are so light you can’t even feel them, some of them are so heavy that it feels like you have a 5-pound weight of your hand. What is kinda the benefit of having a heavier or lighter reel?

Jeff

Oh boy yanno, a couple years ago it was like lighter lighter it has to be lighter and now it is like heavier heavier it’s got to be heavier because it is too light and things are not durable. So we are very conscious of what the weight ends up being on a reel when we come to market with it and we will even have one version of a prototype and say uh we gotta take like  2 tenths of an ounce on that thing and our engineers are like where? And I say that is your job dude. They come back with it and they always come through so weight is very important, but we truly believe you can make a reel too light and it doesn’t balance a rod. Graphite was getting you know rods were getting lighter and lighter, so the reel guys had to chase the guys to balance with the rods. Then there is the Spay market where it has to be heavier and there is the switch market where it has to be heavier. It has come to the point where people don’t really want a really really lightweight reel anymore they want something, as you alluded to earlier, that they can drop on a rock and not worry about it bending. I can’t even tell you how many people I have seen use a reel as a brace when they fall, and while it hurts like hell to get a brook trout reel scratched it is always gonna work. We always say the first scratch is the hardest scratch, but even those are so durable you know people are like I am afraid to fish this reel. It’s like, man don’t be afraid to fish these things, it is gonna take a lot to actually blemish some of these reels whether it is black or a fish graphic or a fade or a solid color. Its all the same strength of anodizing and um they are very durable, but the anodizing itself, of course, is saltwater proof um you do need to be a little bit careful because there are still stainless steel components, there has to be, aluminum is too soft for some of the components and I don’t care what people say about stainless steel there is no such thing as stainless steel, you are going to get some surface rust on it. You just have to take care of your equipment especially in the salt. It doesn’t take much, you don’t want to take it apart and brush it with a toothbrush. Just take a hose and spray the thing off, I mean I lived in southern California the first 20+ years I worked here and I was in the salt all the time and that is all I ever did.

Marshall

Uh Jeff we had a late arrival, Todd Tanner just jumped in he said “Hey!, to Jeff. Just tuned in. Will the Vaya work well for dry fly trout anglers, or is it more of a saltwater/big game reel?”  I know you have answered that.

Jeff

That’s a great question, we made it for both we really did it, that is why we did the ⅘, ⅚, and the ⅞ you know we are not hitting the entire niche of the whole market we did not intend to, we’ve got your light trout rig with your ⅘ and you have you light salt with the ⅞ and the Montana rig with the 5/6. When it comes to a dry fly rig, absolutely.

Scott

Very cool so Jeff I’ve got a question about you know when you are loading backing on tis kinda spool you know a ported spool like this I’ve noticed sometimes that the backing can kinda sometimes bulge out of the spool um anyway to get around that or any thought on that.

Jeff

Well we are actually very conscious of that too when we design a reel because I have seen that happen before if you take apart a Vaya you will see that they are ported out, but there is enough space in between to where you are not going to have line pooching out so to speak, you are not going to have backing creating a weird looking kind of like a thug type feeling between it so you know. I love spectra backing because of all the saltwater fishing I tell people you can wind 50-pound spectra on this type of stuff in that thin diameter and if you feel like you need 190 yards of backing on your trout reel you can get it, um I don’t think you will ever see it unless I’ve also seen people catch tarpon the via, I’ve also seen people catch tarpon on click reels too so. You can do it um, but ya it’s a great question because you can make something too, ported where there is too much space between the hole of the spool and you get those weird bumps of the backing coming out in between.

Scott

Gotcha, um another question here so um in terms of kinda hitting on that two-line weight design, how much does that play into the design of the reel?

Jeff

So uh like is this going to balance well with a four-weight or a five weight?

Marshall 

I think a different way to ask a question is line weight more important than rod weight I mean you know some people like to overline their reel, so do you just say a seven weight rod and a four-weight line but the rod I’m guessing is the factor because of the weight of the rod.

Jeff

Yep, we are definitely looking at rods we uh we all own just about every rod on the market here there are certainly different weights of a five weight and there is on lines too I mean god knows, as I’ve learned a lot more about lines in the last year there are 5 weight lines that are really a 6 weight there are some that are really like a 7. It is all in the idea that I want to load this line this rod and uh let an average angler really feel like they can punch it out on a seven weight line with a five weight sticker on it.

Marshall

Right right

Jeff

Then it goes splash and you don’t catch anything

Marshall 

Kyle Napelbaum asks what is the largest species of fish Able has tested a Vaya on? What is the largest size of fish that you know of that has been caught on a Vaya so far?

Jeff 

Oh, that is a good question…

Marshall

You have said someone has caught a tarpon on it…

Jeff

I have heard of it being done, but the largest species of fish that Abel has tested the Vaya on would be our own internal uh testing systems that we have here. We will sit there and spin a Vaya like all night long it is increasing the amount of in house testing that we do before they actually go out on the market so, we put these things in all kinds of conditions, and that is something we may have not been able to do with some of the machining out there being available for our own field testing so, yeah they are out there in the field. That’s more for some of the maybe the saltwater durability, but when it comes to actual strength I know that it is a boring answer would be I caught 180 lbs tarpon on it um, but I guess I could if I said the one I wouldn’t be truthful saying it. I know I haven’t heard of anyone who got that Vaya to the spool. You know when we do some of this testing I talk about not just the line winders and spinning things backward we are doing salt spray tests as well, there are a lot of different things we can do here in the house that we can also get done out in the field. But believe me, it gets done out on the field before it gets done out on the market.

Marshall

So when you crank down that drag and put five pounds of drag on a Vaya do you do that?

Jeff

Oh absolutely.

Marshall 

Rip that line off and see what happens?

Jeff

Yeah it’s uh you know the Vaya is not designed to be like a 20-pound drag system like the SDF or the SDS is. There you know five of these things compared to twice as many of them on these saltwater reels with a bigger diameter. Those are in the 20 lbs plus range on those things but you are also catching giant trevally instead of you know giant trout.

Scott

Well hey, we just want to see if anybody has any questions if you do feel free to throw them down in the chat. Jeff if you want to uh purchase a Vaya what’s the best way going about doing that. How do people get a hold of you guys?

Jeff

The best way is to go to your local dealer. I know it is hard to say especially right now, I know most local dealers are thankfully starting to open back up again uh we have a great deal of able dealers around the nation you can go to our website we actually have a local dealer locator button on our homepage and click on that type in your zip code and it will pop up the closest shop to you and then that’s the best way to put your hands on it. We certainly love to have all of our sales to go through our authorized dealers they are partners with us they stock the product we want the people to go in and pick them up to form them you have seen on our website you have that build your own reel selector so you can start messing around with all of these different anodized graphics, you can actually purchase it on our website and then there is a drop-down menu on the website where you can credit a dealer around you that is going to get a credit for that sale and it may not be your local dealer. It may be your favorite fly shop in Montana that you go see every year when you finally get the heck out of your house or office or whatever it may be so we kinda give you that option on who’s going to get a part of your sale because, that’s another part of the partnership for these guys being on our team.

Marshall

So we have one last question uh from the audience, Clark Ross asks “You might have touched on this – but from a reel design and material aspect – what has been a ‘game-changer’ for your company vs. other reel companies”.

Jeff

You know I would say it has been what we have always been and Ross since 73’ and Abel since 88’ is we make this ourselves we don’t contract out designers, we don’t contract out anodizers, we are not having someone make it for us overseas and we put a frame on a spool and say made in the USA, it’s this is us this is from top to bottom. That sounds kinda silly, and like a big sales cliche but what it really allows you to do is to control the quality from start to finish and it also controls the lead time you are not waiting on a certain vendor to get you a specific part and they are having their own troubles in their own world and all of the sudden you are missing something that allows you to complete a reel. The longer we do this the better we are getting at it, if you looked at an Abel catalog on our website there is not a reel, the only thing left from 5 years ago is the super series reel and even that has changed dramatically back then you used to have to unscrew a lock nut unscrew a drag knob take the thing apart and now its all enclosed and you just back it off and pull it apart. It really comes from the design aspect and the team coming up with these ideas together and that’s probably a little bit different than most other real manufactures they don’t have that control from start to finish. Maybe not as many long time employees that have gotten as good at is as they are and take the same level of pride in it I mean we are in Montrose, Colorado, I mean we are in about the fishiest place there is in the nation, there are a lot of other great places, but I don’t know of many that are that much greater than here. We all fish too, we are not just a bunch of employees that come in here and clock in or clock out, we are on the water we are testing this stuff, we are thinking about what needs to be done and then we go out and test it. You will see in the background of our office is a pond out there that has got a bunch of fish and employees are going out at lunch and fishing, but what you cant see on the other side of it is the uncompadre river, we have two miles of a really good river actually you know what it is not good at all it is terrible, that we can go out and play and uh it’s part of who we are its, we are on 160 plus acre spread of land that this factory is in as maybe you are aware, we built this factory and opened about a year and a few months ago its a 40,000 sqr foot factory that has all Able and Ross inside of it and it allows us to do what we are doing. We bought, god last time I checked we bought six, seven new machines in the last year to keep up with demand and also to keep up with technology. The newer better machines make better parts and more quickly with fewer touchpoints as we say and the faster we can make something the less expensive we can sell it for because they come down to time. I remember days when you know you would have a giant set of spools, reels, and frames in the middle of the department then they’d be in the lythe department and then go to another. Now it is a lot more involved in stuff getting done. There are some machines we have where we can stick a puck of aluminum in and it will cut the entire frame or spool that you see and that was like, that was not even heard of. Once again, it makes it less expensive because it takes less time to produce. That is a long pointed answer, but that is what makes us different than a lot of companies.

Scott

Hey Jeff I have a question, from the initial kind of idea of the Vaya to actual like you know production ready to go to market how long was that process?

Jeff

Umm, it’s generally about a two-year process, it depends on what it is, but from a conceptual to a prototype to production. Yeah, we go through a lot of changes from the very beginning. I can tell you the original Vaya looked nothing like this. We changed it quite a bit and uh it was great, once again it was a team involved the evolution of the reel getting to what it is, then even coming up with the name. That’s part of the game too, I don’t know if you are aware but Vaya in Spanish actually means “Go” as in go fishing. Go outside, get off your couch go do something.

Marshall 

What great advice. Hey Jeff thanks so much for your time today I really appreciate you taking what turned out a little bit longer than we thought, really great answers and lots of detail. We are really grateful for your time today, once again, everybody, Jeff Paterson with Abel Automatics and Ross Reels and um ya thank you very much, Jeff.

Jeff

Thanks for having us on here and uh happy to do it anytime

Scott

Thanks, everyone for tuning in, thanks for the great questions. We are going to continue geardrop on a weekly basis and will be sharing some really fun and exciting stuff for you guys.

Marshall

Yeah, so until next week, like Jeff said “Vaya” get out there.

Scott

And don’t forget happiness is a wet fly line.